The couple that rides together, stays together, right? Well, Cassey Stone, founder of the “Hell Yeah! Moto” women’s dirt bike riding school, and Jacob Michna, former head of the AMA Hare and Hound National Championship Series now running the AMA West Hare Scramble Championship Series, bring vastly different two-wheel experiences to their relationship, which probably explains why they get along so well. “Is it a Cassey ride?” That’s the most-asked question Stone hears when word spreads of a single-track off-road ride that she may in fact be leading through the wilds of Idaho. “I love showing people around and taking them on trails,” says Stone, adding that she enjoys turning up the heat. “When people start to ride in the desert, the next step has got to be the walk-out-at-midnight ride in the mountains with Cassey.” Both Michna and “Driven to Ride” host Mark Long have survived Stone’s outings. “She definitely taught me a lot of the ways of the woods—stuff like how to saw deadfall trees,” admits Michna, whose day job is events manager for FLY Racing. “Any woods knowledge I have, I’ve definitely learned through her.” Listen to this episode, and you will understand even better why Stone and Michna perfectly complement each other.
The couple that rides together, stays together, right? Well, Cassey Stone, founder of the “Hell Yeah! Moto” women’s dirt bike riding school, and Jacob Michna, former head of the AMA Hare and Hound National Championship Series now running the AMA West Hare Scramble Championship Series, bring vastly different two-wheel experiences to their relationship, which probably explains why they get along so well.
“Is it a Cassey ride?” That’s the most-asked question Stone hears when word spreads of a single-track off-road ride that she may in fact be leading through the wilds of Idaho. “I love showing people around and taking them on trails,” says Stone, adding that she enjoys turning up the heat. “When people start to ride in the desert, the next step has got to be the walk-out-at-midnight ride in the mountains with Cassey.”
Both Michna and “Driven to Ride” host Mark Long have survived Stone’s outings. “She definitely taught me a lot of the ways of the woods—stuff like how to saw deadfall trees,” admits Michna, whose day job is events manager for FLY Racing. “Any woods knowledge I have, I’ve definitely learned through her.” Listen to this episode, and you will understand even better why Stone and Michna perfectly complement each other.
[00:00:00] Mark Long: The couple that rides together, stays together, right? I mean, that's the mantra that my friends Cassey Stone and Jacob Michna live by pretty much every day. You see, Cassey's the founder of the Hell Yeah Moto Women's Dirt Bike Riding School, based in the Boise, Idaho area. And then Jacob serves as the events manager for a little company called Fly Racing.
[00:00:22] Plus, he spent a few years as the series director for the National Hare and Hound Association. Even though they come from wildly different topographies, Cassey from the mountains and Jacob from the desert, They both live, breathe, and eat off-road riding, which is probably why they get along so well. But if you think that these two like to head out for an easy leisurely two-wheeled adventure into nature, you've got another thing coming.
[00:00:46] Trust me, I've got firsthand experience of what a Cassey dirt bike ride takes. But then again, with them, you'll also understand what's so magical about taking a motorcycle off road and into the wilderness. Plus, you won't want to wait to be able to do it again. This is Cassey Stone and Jacob Michna. I'm your host, Mark Long, and you're listening to Driven to Ride.
[00:01:07] Alright, Cassey Stone and Jacob Michna, you guys are on Driven to Ride. Thanks so much for being here.
[00:01:14] Jacob Michna: Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thanks for having us.
[00:01:16] Mark Long: Yeah. This is exciting. So, uh, Cassey, a full disclosure, you and I know each other already. We worked, uh, in radio together back in a previous life.
[00:01:25] Cassey Stone: Yes, we did.
[00:01:25] Um, fun times, outside sales, selling radio. Um, with cars going to podcasts in their car and everything on Spotify. So that was a good time for me.
[00:01:36] Mark Long: Yeah. But, uh, you, um, you showed me how tough, uh, you have to be to be an off road rider in the state of Idaho. Um, man, I, I still think about that ride. I don't know if you know this Jacob, but, uh, Cassey took my buddy, Danny and I on a ride and I just.
[00:01:55] I didn't do so hot. The best compliment I got all day was from Cassey and she goes, you know how to crash really well.
[00:02:04] Cassey Stone: That sounds about right. That's a skill though. Seriously. So it was,
[00:02:08] Mark Long: I appreciated the positive spin. So, um, but Jacob, this is the first time we're meeting. So nice to meet you. Thanks for being here.
[00:02:14] Let's start kind of from the beginning. What's, um, kind of your, in your own words, what's your guys claim to fame?
[00:02:20] Cassey Stone: Sure. So I'll go first. Um, so my claim to fame in this writing space is all my friends. Well, they say, when we go on a ride that's led by me, they always ask, is it a Cassey ride? Is it a Cassey ride?
[00:02:32] And it's like, um, is it a ride? Is it an adventure? Because you may or may not go on a 12 hour day and end up walking out at midnight in the middle of the woods. So. Um, that's, that's kind of my claim to fame is everyone knows me for riding, um, mountain single track and that's what I love the most. So I love showing people around and taking them on trails, um, and pushing them because, you know, when people start out to ride, um, in the desert, the next step, you know, has got to be the walk out at midnight, right in the mountains with Cassey.
[00:03:02] So, um, that's kind of my claim to fame. And then of course I did scoring for our local racing series, Sidra. So some people know me as a. Um, and then recently, you know, for the hell yeah, moto clinics. So, um, coaching and getting bigger in that space here. There's not a lot of female coaches, so that's probably my claim to fame.
[00:03:25] And then Jake's is way cooler than mine.
[00:03:28] Jacob Michna: Yeah. Um, mine is, uh, basically I'm the last survivor of Cassey's rides. Um, so still standing strong, but no, um, yeah. Yeah, so mine, I basically, my claim to fame, uh, I guess would be from my time as a series director at the National Heron Hound Association. So, running both the National Heron Hounds, which is 80 to 120 mile long desert races and, uh, also running the AMA West hair scrambles, which was, or is, um, around two and a half hour plus races in the premier class in the woods.
[00:03:59] So one's desert, one's woods. So it got the best of both worlds and then, uh, dabbled in Sidra for a little bit too. And then, uh, I worked at dealerships before that for about eight years. So
[00:04:10] Cassey Stone: weren't you the longest standing director?
[00:04:12] Jacob Michna: Yeah. So I was the longest standing director. Um, the longest one before me was And I did it, which was Eric Kudlow and he went off to be the AMA off road manager.
[00:04:21] And, um, I, I did it for eight years, so it was a long, long time. I think I counted over a hundred races and NHHA alone. And I was also in clubs before that helping putting on races and then same. That's kind of how I got into it was with Eric. I helped him run a series for a while. So did a lot of time putting on races and like since I was 15 to now basically.
[00:04:43] So
[00:04:43] Cassey Stone: man, I think that's the only job he hasn't had in motorcycles is weren't you like a delivery driver for two weeks?
[00:04:49] Jacob Michna: Yeah. Um, I, I was, didn't even actually go on deliveries. I trained for UPS for a little bit and then I got a call from a dealership saying, Hey, We got a job opening. I was like, I'll be there.
[00:04:59] And then they hired me. So
[00:05:01] Mark Long: you dodged a bullet. You dodged the real job bullet. Congratulations.
[00:05:04] Jacob Michna: Well,
[00:05:07] Mark Long: yeah, no, that's super awesome. I mean, I know, I know Cassey loves motorcycles and off road riding, um, again, for, from firsthand knowledge of riding, uh, with her. And, uh, it sounds like you, you know, you've been around the motorcycle world for a hell of a long time.
[00:05:21] So, um, super, super excited to talk to you guys about it. Um, But let's, let's start at the beginning. How did you guys get, even get into motorcycling?
[00:05:29] Cassey Stone: So I got into it seriously by, I had a rant, a random redneck friend who was like, you have ridden dirt bikes. And I'm like, no, but I'll try. Cause I'm down to try anything.
[00:05:40] Yeah. And yeah, I borrowed a bike, went out in like tennis shoes or whatever, no gear. I had a helmet, um, it went on a forest service road and that was it. Like for the first three rides, I did that and learned that there was a brat, a back break. Cause I didn't know that was a thing. Like just seriously, you know, when the dad teaches the daughter how to swim, just throws her in the water.
[00:06:03] That's how it was for dirt biking with me. And then that's how it started. I seriously just had this friend that was like, Hey, I do this thing. You want to join me? And I said, sure. And then, um, he actually fronted my first dirt bike, bought it for me. Let me make payments. I'm this young kid just trying to figure out life with finances.
[00:06:20] And, um, he let me pay it off. And then after that, it was just an addiction. So that's how I got into it.
[00:06:27] Mark Long: So were you hooked right from the start or did it take a couple of rides to really get into it?
[00:06:33] Cassey Stone: I was hooked, but you know, I really got hooked when I did my first like real big race. Um, 2019, I did the Kellogg Hardendorough, the Silver Kings, and I did it on this clapped out O2 Honda two stroke, no e start.
[00:06:49] Dude, it was, it was, It was horrible. I had like, I didn't care about anything back then, like matching gear wise. We showed up the only ones camping in the parking lot in a tent, everyone else has toy haulers bougie and I'm just like, yeah, let's go do this thing. Um, so I did it and I, you know, I was pushing my bike uphill, throwing out of my helmet, throwing up out of my helmet and just like killing my body and my mental state.
[00:07:15] But the thing is, I finished, I didn't give up and that's when I learned like, I have a lot of passion for this thing. And that's when I realized I was like, I love it. So I went home, bought a brand new bike. Um, everyone told me you're going to ride so much better after you get a new bike. And I didn't believe them.
[00:07:31] And it's really true. So it was that moment when I was like, I didn't give up and I love it. And I need something new to get me to the next level. So. Yeah,
[00:07:40] Mark Long: nice man. Jacob, how about you? How do you, how did you get into motorcycling?
[00:07:44] Jacob Michna: Um, when I was like 10 years old, my dad picked me up one day and took me to a dealership.
[00:07:49] I had no idea where we were going and he was like, all right, well, this is your new dirt bike. And it was, you know, the good old classic XR 100 that a lot of people have like grown up learning at that age. So, um, he picked that up. We went out riding, I think the next day and, uh, I didn't like the first time I wrote, I didn't think I was going to like it and neither did he.
[00:08:07] Like I went down this. the sandy road and had to do 180 and i would just fall over and wait for him to get me and i don't think i didn't get out of first gear so like sure the second time i went out um i got into fifth and that's when it all like clicked for me and then i fell in love with it and uh like in the Ages when I was younger, I was into freestyle a lot.
[00:08:28] And then, uh, I started working at this little repair shop when I was 15 and a half or whatever. And, um, they, they were all into desert racing. I didn't even know that existed at the time. And then they like told me all the cool stories of like Destry Abbott, Danny Hamill, and Johnny Campbell. And they like, You know, like made them seem like legends, which they are, but like, you know, built it in my head type thing.
[00:08:50] And then I just fell in love with that. I went out to like my first desert race and saw what a bomb run was. And which, if you don't know what that is, that's like a hundred ish people wide going across the desert. Eventually like a mile later, you go down to one trail. Um, so I fell in love with it there.
[00:09:04] I actually did really good out there compared to like where I did in motocross. Um, cause I had raced one motocross race for that. And so I kind of bounced around all the different, like, aspects of off road for a while and, uh, raced that until eventually I was like, started transitioning to more and helping putting them on, so.
[00:09:21] Uh, ran raced for quite a bit of races though in my younger years until I went to college, so.
[00:09:26] Mark Long: Nice. So once you got into fifth gear, you were hooked.
[00:09:29] Jacob Michna: Yeah, that's all it took. I was like, okay. Yeah. And then we were building tabletops out. My grandpa's like farmland is flat land. He was out there like building, building little tabletops for us.
[00:09:40] And yeah,
[00:09:41] Mark Long: man, that's like full send. I love it.
[00:09:43] Jacob Michna: Yeah, that's
[00:09:44] Mark Long: like, um, so I, I don't, I don't know if I've ever shared this story, but how I learned how to ride a motorcycle in like a, with a gear and transmission and stuff like that was I was 15 and I skipped a day of driver's ed over the summer to go riding with a good buddy of mine whose family was into dirt bike riding.
[00:10:03] And I had, you know, ridden scooters or ridden like, um, Mini bikes and all that kind of stuff. So I knew, you know, I was comfortable on two wheels, but I had never used like, you know, the clutch and the transmission or whatever. But I remember by the end of the day, I was, I was getting a little bit of air off tabletops and stuff, and that was like the most fun thing.
[00:10:20] So I totally get it. Once you get the transmission down and you don't have to think about it, it's just. It's so fun.
[00:10:26] Jacob Michna: Yeah. It's a blast.
[00:10:27] Mark Long: Totally feel that. So, well, let's, let's talk about desert racing a little bit. Uh, Jacob, tell me about National Heron Hound. Tell me just about desert racing. I mean, I'm from the Midwest, so that's a completely foreign concept to me.
[00:10:41] So
[00:10:41] Jacob Michna: got it. Yeah. So here on the West coast, um, what like separates us from the East coast is we have a lot of, uh, BLM land, so Bureau of Land Management, meaning like, uh, We have big sparses of desert and stuff to work with. So, um, in different States, you have different rules and stuff to follow, but like, for example, down in Southern California, Johnson Valley, you're able to just kind of go across the desert.
[00:11:03] You don't necessarily have to stay on a trail compared to here to Idaho, where you have to stay on a trail. You're not allowed to like just cross barren, um, Virgin terrain, they call it.
[00:11:12] Mark Long: Sure.
[00:11:13] Jacob Michna: Um, so yeah, down in basically all heron hounds, um, There's kind of different styles of desert racing. There's Heron Hound, there's scrambles, there's Euro scrambles, and then there's like Enduros and they all basically have different formats.
[00:11:28] But, um, Heron Hounds is a race that is based off of distance rather than time. So your Heron Hound in the rule book has to be a minimum of 70 miles ish. It changes once in a while, but basically more than that. And, um, it can be more than 140 and Heron Hounds are kind of weird because they can also. Be like a point to point, um, which we've had a couple of those in the past, um, when I was working there, but, um, logistically it was a little harder put on, but, uh, yeah, basically you, you imagine a two loops, your standard Heron Hound is two different loops and you never see the same part of the course twice, except for maybe the last little bit coming into the finish and you'll start on this, uh, bomb run.
[00:12:09] And, um, you're going to go across the desert and you all merge down into this trail. And they used to call it bomb run because they would have these smoke bombs back in the day, um, at the end of the bomb run. And, um, if you've ever seen on any Sunday, uh, the movie, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's that desert racing scene.
[00:12:26] That was the bomb run. And a lot of that is, you know, still continue on today. Um, it's harder to get the permits for bomb runs, but, um, for the actual smoke. I mean, so yeah, for the bomb part, as you can imagine. Uh, but you merge down into one trail and then that's where you're like 40 miles ish. Start, let's say, and, um, you're going to follow pink arrows and pink ribbon.
[00:12:47] Uh, Kirk Casselli foundation, uh, came up with a new marking system these days. So, uh, back in the old day though, there was never any consistent marking. So it was a little, a little more interesting to like figure out how a club was going to mark a course. Um, but you go follow that course for 40 miles and it'll bring you back into pit row and then you'll refuel and then you'll head out for your other 40 mile loop.
[00:13:08] And typically the first 40 miles is a lot more like fast paced, more flowy. And then your second 40 miles is usually the more, uh, like technical. So you'll have a lot more like boulders, um, waterfalls, downhills, bigger hill climbs. Um, yeah, it's usually the more difficult, the more taxing long, but depending on, depending You know, which round you're at, like the, the Southern California rounds can typically be a little tougher than like Idaho or like Nevada and stuff like that.
[00:13:35] Usually the, the ones that are in Utah and stuff like that are pretty tame. Although they have had some hard ones. Don't get me wrong. Um, and then, yeah, you come in and it's just like this, I don't know. It's like, you're connected with nature really out there. So, um, It's kind of an adventure every time. I highly recommend if you've never done it, like, if you're worried about the bomb run, just like in reality, you're just have to worry about the dude to the left on the right of you.
[00:13:59] So like, just, just take it to your time. You'll have a good time. You have 80 miles past those people back if you're serious about the race. So
[00:14:05] Mark Long: nice, uh, Cassey, have you, have you done a hare and hound race or watched a desert race?
[00:14:11] Cassey Stone: Yeah. I've done some Heron Hounds, um, specifically some with his series. Okay.
[00:14:15] That's actually where I first got my first crush on him was at my first Heron Hound race. Love it. Um, he's that guy holding the microphone, he's hot, um, and here we are, so, but yeah. Yeah, I raced one, my last one this year. I did C, worked my way up to B, and then raced my first A this year. And I came in like 18 seconds behind second.
[00:14:36] So I was like, okay, I can do this. And then I proved it to myself. Um, and I haven't raced any others this year, but yeah, I, it's fun. But to me, I love the woods. So like the hard enduro, the Kellogg race was super fun and his hair scrambles. I love that style because it's like, 15 ish miles and then you're timed and then you do as many laps as you can and then you start to Remember the track so you're like, ooh, I can go faster here because I know what's coming up next And it's usually in the trees too.
[00:15:06] I I I say I'm not a desert rider but I just I just do it because it's our backyard. So,
[00:15:14] Mark Long: yeah, no, for sure. For sure. I mean, uh, it seems like you guys obviously died in the wool off road folks and you'll ride anywhere off road. Do you guys ride street at all? Have you had it? Have you ever ridden street? Do you have any inclinations to ride street or not really?
[00:15:29] Cassey Stone: I used to have a couple of street bikes, um, an 800 Vulcan and then a 500 GSX Suzuki. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would just ride the Suzuki around like to work and to volleyball and stuff. Um, did a couple trips up here from Boise to Idaho city, if any of you are from this area. Um, but other than that, like I would, we would love to get adventure bikes.
[00:15:54] And go on adventures, but it's too many hobbies that are expensive. I think
[00:16:00] Jacob Michna: for
[00:16:01] Cassey Stone: me, I don't know if you've ridden street, have you?
[00:16:03] Jacob Michna: Uh, I wrote a, a Grom to a gas station one time, so you could say I'm pretty hardcore. Okay.
[00:16:10] Mark Long: Yeah. You, you win the prize on that one, man. Honestly, though, I've heard those Groms are super fun.
[00:16:15] And every time I see one, I've never seen anybody like have a bad time on one of those. So it's like, be kind of fun to have one of those, you know,
[00:16:23] Jacob Michna: Guilty pleasure. Right?
[00:16:26] Cassey Stone: It's like dirt bike, pit bikes, but for street.
[00:16:28] Mark Long: Yeah. And yeah, for sure.
[00:16:30] Cassey Stone: So
[00:16:31] Mark Long: do you, I, I have to ask, do you guys, or maybe more specifically, Jacob, do you think that street people that ride on the street are insane or no?
[00:16:39] Jacob Michna: Oh, for sure. Like I'll demand, I always have like a huge respect for those guys. And, uh, I mean, I, I have truth be told. I've like hopped on like a crotch rock and try to get the feel for it. I think, and I'm like. I, I'm like a fish out of the water. I didn't look like I have never rode a motorcycle before when I hop on one.
[00:16:55] So yeah, it's like a weird concept to me. I don't know. It's just like the Posture and all that stuff. But yeah, I do. I think those guys are nuts. So
[00:17:04] Mark Long: see, cause I think you off road, people are insane. And that was only even more, uh, that point was only even more driven home on, uh, our adventure up to, to silver city, Idaho, which, um, I'd still burned in my brain.
[00:17:19] It was so fun, but like, and, and for, just for context, you know, like I said, Cassey was like, Hey, I got some friends. We're going to go up to silver city. It's this nice, you know, beautiful trail. Um, you know, why don't you and Danny rent some dirt bikes and we'll go. And I'm okay. No big deal. I've written for half my life.
[00:17:33] This shouldn't be a no big deal or whatever. And, uh, I don't know if you remember this Cassey, but the, the first like downhill, like five minutes into the ride, I dumped it and I broke the, uh, the clutch handle.
[00:17:45] Cassey Stone: Yeah.
[00:17:47] Mark Long: And it was a kickstart and I'm like, all right, I'm not letting this ruin my day or anybody else's.
[00:17:52] Like, I'm just, I'm going to roll with it. Cause it could still fit in the housing. I could still manipulate it, but you know, it was basically anytime we stopped, I'd have to kill it. And, um, I mean, oh my God, we went up rocks. We went down rocks. We, it just was, it was, I was such a fish out of water. And so like, Completely like humbled that day.
[00:18:13] And so ever since it's, and I remember actually something that you told me, uh, that I still remember is that you have to be comfortable, like letting the bike go where it wants to go. Cause with street riding, I mean, you have. Traction, like all the time, you know, you're, you're, for lack of a better term, like glued to the ground and with off road riding, I mean, it's just fast and loose all the time.
[00:18:36] You're never like solid on one spot. You have, like you said, you have to be comfortable and solid, like just moving around, you know, it's a completely different world. The name
[00:18:48] Cassey Stone: of the game. Is trying to get as much traction as you can and it's hard when you're on a slippery dry dirt like we rode Yeah, um wish I could have took you on something that was a little more tacky with denser soil and moisture like idaho city, but Um, yeah, definitely threw you into probably the hardest type of riding.
[00:19:06] Mark Long: Okay, that makes me feel a little better
[00:19:08] Cassey Stone: Yeah, no, you should feel good. And I remember there's a lot of rain ruts And as a beginner or intermediate writer, you've been writing for a long time, um, writing rain ruts on slippery dry dirt. So,
[00:19:20] Mark Long: yeah, well, like I said, I was, I was humbled and you guys all kicked my ass.
[00:19:24] I'll be the first one to tell you that, uh, every day. But, um, what impressed me most was your patience. Um, and which makes perfect sense when you told me that you were, um, doing hell yeah moto and starting to teach people how to ride, uh, how to ride off road. So tell me how that got started.
[00:19:44] Cassey Stone: So it truly started years ago.
[00:19:46] I've been leading women's rides. Specifically, um, for like five or six years. And I just started it because I'm a girl and I was trying to make more girlfriends, to be honest, have plenty of guy friends. Um, but I was like, wow, there's girls that ride. They're just not all coming together. So why don't I just bring us all together?
[00:20:04] So I started leading women's rides, started making more girlfriends. And on those rides, you know, a couple of things I noticed was a lot of these girls have they don't have a lot of confidence. They don't know where to start all of the things that maybe their boyfriend or husbands have kind of groomed or help them or let them do.
[00:20:22] Um, but in these groups, you know, we help, we help each other. And then their confidence just skyrockets and they're like, I don't need no man. And it's just, it's so fun for me like to see that independence come out. So, um, so I realized that on one specific ride outside of Boise, if you know where eight street is, um, downtown Boise, up in the foothills, We did after work ride one time when there were six of us girls and there's this one little section that's like just dry slick and it's just kind of like rocky boulders uphill.
[00:20:52] Um, and we were dying because it was, you know, 95 degrees, um, Boise desert heat, and all of us girls, we'd get up, walk down, help the next one, get up, walk down, help the next one, and that, that was the exact moment that I realized I was like, I can do this. Like I'm helping other people find that confidence within themselves, um, to prove themselves wrong, basically that they can do this and just seeing everyone like cheer each other onto was like, I got to do this for real.
[00:21:20] So, um, fast forward a few years this year. Well, last year I started planning it. I was like, There's no women's USMCA certified coaches here. Why don't I just do it? So I went and went on and got the credentials and they make you do a couple little tests and stuff and and I passed And then I got my girlfriend Liz Leonard to do it with me too.
[00:21:44] And I said, hey, let's go put on some clinics and we partnered with A couple of motor cross tracks here and marketed it, got AMA sanctioned and chartered, got insurance, and did it all legit and, um, we've had two so far and I have four more on the schedule, um, but it just reassured me that I, I don't know.
[00:22:06] I'm not, you know, maybe meant for this, but I just really enjoy it so much and I needed to do it. So,
[00:22:11] Mark Long: yeah, no, that's, that's impressive, man. That's, I mean, you, you, you, like you said, you went through the whole thing, you got certified and you're legit. So what's, what's the, um, response been to, uh, to some of the people that have taken the clinics?
[00:22:24] Cassey Stone: The response has been good. So, I, the first two we did was at Owyhee Motorcycle Club outside of Boise, and um, that is a member only track, but they actually let me bring non members in, which was so cool of them. And we did the clinic in a half portion of just like flat ground and half, um, on an actual track width.
[00:22:43] Jumps that are intimidating. Um, and a lot of the girls that came, you know, they're on KLX 140s 85s 105s and they're newer, they're beginners, somewhere intermediate, and I really pushed them And at the end I said, okay, we're gonna learn how to Jump. Who wants to learn how to jump? Normally people, you know, they don't want to because they're intimidated.
[00:23:03] But dude, seeing these girls fly on KLX 140s was so awesome. Like, and everyone, I, cause some of their husbands came and just watched and they said, wow, my wife's confidence was just like out the roof. I've never seen her want to jump before. And it was just so cool. Like, Just hearing them say, wow, I want to do it again.
[00:23:24] Or like seeing them. Cause I paid a videographer to come out to a visuals. Bob, my dude, love you. Um, seeing these girls in slow motion, jumping on a KLX 140 was like, damn, that's cool.
[00:23:38] Mark Long: Yeah, man. That's, that's awesome. Uh, Jacob, are you involved with hell? Yeah. Moto or the clinics at all? Or do you, are you busy doing other stuff or are no boys allowed?
[00:23:48] Jacob Michna: It's definitely a no boys allowed thing right now. Um, I try to support her, you know, behind the scenes as much as I can, but this is very much a Cassey ran show. Um, she's a very. Strong, independent woman. So she don't need no man. Um, but yeah, no, she, she does it all. Like I, unfortunately, like I, with my new job, I couldn't be here to like sport as much as I want to because I was gone every weekend for super cross with a fly.
[00:24:13] But, um, yeah, she, so she really ran off of that. I was very impressed that, I mean, no surprise to me. But also it's just, you know, it's very sexy to see her, you know, take off and do it on her.
[00:24:25] Cassey Stone: He's, he's definitely, I'm sure, as you know, you know, your partner to, um, someone who supports you with your growth and helps you grow too is super important.
[00:24:33] Um, and just picking his brain to, from all of his experience helped so much. Um, and all we do is talk to him. Like talk about dirt bikes and ride your bike. So that's all the support really that I needed. Um, but yeah, he's helped a lot too. And like, help me set up, I did an expo booth and, um, that was just really fun.
[00:24:53] So,
[00:24:54] Mark Long: um, what are, uh, maybe, what are the, maybe the biggest things that you guys have learned from each other riding wise?
[00:25:02] Cassey Stone: So he's like the master at desert. Sure. And. I taught, well, I think I took you to kind of your first real, like,
[00:25:10] Jacob Michna: Real mountain woods ride, like, the only woods I'd done before that was like, pretty flat, or it was like, uh, Big Bear, which doesn't really count, that's like desert mountains.
[00:25:17] Mark Long: Sure, so you were, you were new to the altitude, as it were.
[00:25:21] Jacob Michna: Yes. So she, she taught me a lot of the woods way. Like she's fast as well, you know, explicit word in the woods. And, uh, I have like, I, especially when I was first going through it, I had a hard time keeping up with her and I'm not like, I, I raced up so like, um, through the expert open class and stuff.
[00:25:42] Cassey Stone: So
[00:25:43] Jacob Michna: it's not like I'm, I'm slow, but she, yeah, she holds her own through the woods. And, um, yeah, I. She beats me a lot of times out there. So yeah,
[00:25:52] Cassey Stone: he is so fast in the desert. And I'm talking like those desert guys are crazy. Like all the ones that race Baja and stuff, you just have to turn off, you know, your brain and literally just hold it.
[00:26:02] And then your body goes into this, um, robot mode, you know, where you just know how to, you know, position the whole time and then just go fast. And that's what he's really good at and I'm not. So I feel like when we go ride open fast stuff, it's, I learned from him by just watching him and just trying to keep up because I can't do that.
[00:26:22] My brain has to like stay on. I think that's why the fast, you know, technical stuff is fun for me. Cause you're always like watching out and remembering what the train might be up ahead from what you just went through and all of that.
[00:26:34] Jacob Michna: Yeah. Yeah. She, she definitely taught me a lot of the ways of the woods and stuff, like how to saw dead fall trees and stuff and you know, the, uh, the right ways as well as just like living in Idaho, how it's all different and stuff.
[00:26:47] So yeah, I really got to give her credit for all my, any woods knowledge I have, I've definitely learned through her. So
[00:26:54] Mark Long: yeah, it's a different world, man.
[00:26:57] Jacob Michna: I still got her on the downhills there though. That's where I catch her in the mountains. So I just shift up a gear and yeah.
[00:27:03] Cassey Stone: Again, turn off the brain.
[00:27:05] Just go. I'm like an overthinker. I'm like, I'm going to start endo ing and flipping down this thing.
[00:27:11] Mark Long: Perfect compliments though. How about that? You guys need to find like, um, like an open relay or something where it's like, you can get a race, you can do a race where there's desert and, and woods and mountain and altitude.
[00:27:22] And you guys probably wipe the floor with everybody.
[00:27:24] Jacob Michna: I keep trying to talk her into like racing Vegas, Torino with me or something like that. Um, or, or 24 hours of Glen Helen, but she'll come around.
[00:27:33] Mark Long: Give it time. So, uh, Jacob, you mentioned you are, uh, you're involved with fly racing. You're, you're working with fly right now.
[00:27:41] How'd you get involved with them? What do you do for them?
[00:27:44] Jacob Michna: Um, so I'm their events manager and, uh, towards the end of my time with Heron Hound, um, I had seen a position open up for, uh, events manager. And so, um, she actually brought it to my attention. So, um,
[00:27:59] Cassey Stone: I was like, you would be perfect for this. It's meant for you.
[00:28:02] Jacob Michna: And
[00:28:02] Cassey Stone: they agreed, obviously. So,
[00:28:04] Jacob Michna: yeah, yes. So my, uh, my resume filled in exactly for what they were looking for. I met the team and like, I, I don't know. I feel at home there. I love the marketing team there. They're awesome. Like the whole team's awesome. Um, and my bosses are awesome. They're amazing. Uh, uh, Dalton and Anthony.
[00:28:22] So
[00:28:23] Cassey Stone: he's getting paid to say this. I'm not, they're like, can you say awesome in a row?
[00:28:26] Jacob Michna: So they're really cool. I'm actually really happy. And yeah, they've come over here. We had like a barbecue here. We're going to go out riding in the woods and stuff. So like. They're still like, we're friends outside of work, but when we're at work, like we get stuff done and I just love it.
[00:28:40] I'm never bored there. We're always getting it done. So,
[00:28:43] Mark Long: and you said you're traveling a lot with, uh, with Supercross.
[00:28:47] Jacob Michna: Yeah. So right off the bat, like I started two, two or three weeks before super cross start season started. So like, I was just got my desk set up and then we were loading the semi truck to go to Anaheim one.
[00:28:58] So, um, yeah, we went to every single one except for, um, Detroit. Yeah. Detroit, because there was no fan fest there, but, um, yeah. So we have like a hospitality area we set up for all the dealers. So it's kind of cool because like I said, I used to work at dealerships right here. So this was kind of like. Full circle for me to like kind of treat the dealers and stuff that I used to work with and I saw a lot of Familiar faces from like over eight years ago that I used to work with so like that was that was super cool And yeah, it's that's how it works.
[00:29:28] Like we set up hospitality area. They come over we you know, treat them to food and um Giveaways and stuff like that then we kind of have a uh area where fans get to come up and they get to sign up for a giveaway like our helmet giveaway and for Foam fingers and stuff Uh, like that. So
[00:29:43] Mark Long: nice. So was it a big jump to go from like that Heron Hound and desert to, to the super cross that had to have been a bit of an adjustment?
[00:29:51] Jacob Michna: Oh, for sure. Um, Heron Hound for me, the stress, and I tell people this a lot, like the stress level for me for being a series director was at a really high peak, especially with two series, and we even had races where we're designing marketing course. So like, it was a lot, um, and, uh, the stress level for fly for me is very low just because.
[00:30:10] Everything kind of just works as a streamline. Like I'm not, I'm not overloaded like I was with Heron Hound. So it's very, um, relaxing person like that. And they like what I like bring to the table. And, uh, it's just a really, I don't know. It's really well balanced for me. I'm really happy with that, but yeah, um, the adjustment did take a little bit flying every weekend.
[00:30:30] I wasn't used to flying as much and also being away. Of course, from Cassey was, you know, the hardest part because gone for, you know, from. Thursday, sometimes Wednesday till flyback Sunday. Um, and so it was a lot like every weekend being gone away from each other. It was pretty hard to be away from home.
[00:30:48] So, um, that was the hardest adjustment for sure. But from work to work, um, yeah, it was just kind of a, a nice.
[00:30:58] Mark Long: So, um, as you know, as a couple who rides a lot, do you kind of have your own way of communicating while you're riding? I mean, do you have Bluetooth? Do you hand signals? Do you just ignore each other? I mean, or try to race as, you know, as fast as you can away from each other. What's, what's that like?
[00:31:15] Jacob Michna: We, there's one finger she keeps showing me.
[00:31:17] I can't remember which one, um, that's, It's funny you say that though. We do have a couple we ride with, uh, Jess and Joe, they have a headset and they're always talking to each other. And which is funny to me because when like one of them comes around the corner, it looks like they're talking to themselves.
[00:31:33] Um, so that's entertaining to me, but no, for us, we, we like to kind of enjoy the peace and quiet, I think. So what do you think, babe?
[00:31:40] Cassey Stone: Yeah, we're the complete opposite of Jess and Joe. Like we're not trying to talk to each other and if I'm trying to talk to him, it's because I've tried. Picking up my bike up a rock side five times.
[00:31:49] And now I need his help. So, um, it's usually yelling at that point, but, um, no, I think we both like really enjoy being one with nature. Um, so without interruption. So I think that's our style for sure. I think it's funny. Cause you talk about like couples who do things together and it's always the, okay, so do you want me to help you?
[00:32:10] Like, do you want me to rush over when you fall? And so we had to work that out in the beginning. And after that, it's. It's, it's been good.
[00:32:17] Mark Long: Can you kind of read what each other's doing writing wise or like if somebody's struggling or anything like that, can you read each other's body language that way?
[00:32:25] Jacob Michna: I know I can read hers.
[00:32:26] I'm curious if she can read mine though.
[00:32:28] Cassey Stone: Well, reading body language is usually like, Jake's ran into a tree and has a concussion and he's like on the ground. So that's a pretty good read of body language. Um, I'm more of like a tough love, tough coach type person. So I'll let you try to figure it out in the beginning.
[00:32:45] And he's a really good writer. So normally he doesn't need help unless again, he's ran into a tree, which just seems to be common these days. Um, so happens
[00:32:55] Mark Long: to the best of us. Yeah.
[00:32:57] Cassey Stone: Well, other than that, it's. We're doing a super long, hot rides and we're dehydrated. I can tell when he's like declining and we need to seek shade or like energy bars or something now.
[00:33:10] Um, and I think same for me just because I have an issue with like staying dehydrated or hydrated properly. Um, and I just fade. So
[00:33:19] Jacob Michna: she's the type, she doesn't have like a slow decline. Hers is like, she is like, Just killing it and then just bam, throwing up on the side of the survival mode,
[00:33:31] Mark Long: like a rollercoaster.
[00:33:32] It's just, you're good. You're going to do good. And boom, straight down. Yeah. Yeah, that's wild, man. Um, but, uh, so you said you, you talked a little bit about taking super long day trips and all that. Have you guys taken any like multi day off road trips or camping trips or anything like that with, uh, off road riding?
[00:33:49] Jacob Michna: You have, well, I mean, sorry, when you say that, do you mean like, like we take the bike out on the trail and we like pull out a tent out of our pack and like sleep in the woods? Or do you mean like we bring a trailer out for the weekend and we're like riding and then we go back to the trailer after a ride all day?
[00:34:06] Mark Long: Uh, well I, I originally meant like moto camping, like, you know, we pack a tent and you pack in there and then you do like a multi day trip or whatever. But I mean, it sounds like, it sounds like you've done the other a little bit more with a trailer. Yeah.
[00:34:18] Cassey Stone: We definitely want to like we would love to and there's definitely some multiple trail Sections we want to link up by doing that.
[00:34:25] Sure. I just think we haven't yet mostly because if we go ride It's like hard to row for eight hours And then we want to go back to our trailer and make dinner and not sleep on the side of the trail right now Right So if we purposely meant to do that, I think it'd be fun for sure. Cause a lot of the trails out here, you can link stuff together and it's like multiple mountain lakes and just, it's so cool.
[00:34:47] So on the bucket list, if you want to come join us, we can make it happen.
[00:34:52] Mark Long: You know, I've, I've talked to enough people now that like, I'm, I kind of have this thing in the back of my head, like maybe ADV bikes would be kind of fun. So I don't know, maybe we could, could link something up there. So, well, let me ask you guys this, where, um, And whoever wants to go first and go first, but where is like your favorite, you know, place that you have ever ridden or that you love to ride?
[00:35:13] Like every time it never gets old.
[00:35:17] Jacob Michna: Go ahead, babe.
[00:35:19] Cassey Stone: Um, gosh. Okay. So I have three specifically here in Idaho and one in Utah. And that's really all I've written is because. We have so many trails here that it's hard to ride outside of this area. Um, so I haven't adventured a lot, to be honest, I've ridden St.
[00:35:36] George, Utah, and that's my most favorite out of state place. It's that slick Red Rock dude is so fun. Talk about traction. There's traction the whole time. Um, and it's so playful. So you can just like flip over things and connect your tires everywhere you go. Nice. Um, yeah. And then here in Idaho, I'm not going to give away my secrets, but, um, but yeah, there's three places that are my favorite.
[00:36:02] And I'd probably say, oh, favorite, favorite, I'm going to have to say Pine and Featherville, just Baumgartner area. I, It just has a place in my heart. You know, that's where I hunt. That's where I ride. Um, I've shared a lot of memories with friends and family and Jake there. And we've also shared really fun memory of walking out at midnight there together.
[00:36:23] So it's leaving our bikes in the middle of the woods. Um, so. That's probably my favorite. It never gets old
[00:36:29] Mark Long: for
[00:36:30] Cassey Stone: sure.
[00:36:30] Mark Long: Yeah. How about you, Jacob?
[00:36:31] Jacob Michna: Um, for me, I mean, anywhere in the Idaho mountains, I love, I bought, as far as the Idaho mountain stuff goes, Baumgartner, like she said, it's definitely my favorite.
[00:36:39] Um, as far as like all the places I've been able to go ride, uh, because of my last job and see, um, I really, well, I grew up down the road from Ocotillo well. So like I used to ride. Whether it's to go jump or to go like find single track and like hidden little slot canyons and stuff. So that one never got old for me for sure.
[00:37:00] I'm out of state from that though. Um, I really like have this weird affection for Caneville. Um, it's definitely more of a jumper type place. It's a free ride thing, but it's like so beautiful out there for desert, but it's also like, so hostile. So like that balance just kind of makes you, I don't know, it makes you really humble, makes you like grounded out there.
[00:37:23] And, uh, like I, I don't really feel like a fish out of water most places, except for when I first started riding woods out here, but like Caneville, like every time I go there, it's like, everything's big, everything's like, Higher consequence, I would say, but it's just an amazing time for me. So
[00:37:40] Cassey Stone: I forgot about Moab.
[00:37:42] We went to five miles of hell. Oh, no way. It was like the trip that he asked me to be his girlfriend, overlooking the city on top of this bluff. That was cool. But, um,
[00:37:53] Mark Long: I didn't know anybody. I'd say you were a hopeless romantic Jacob. Come on now.
[00:37:56] Cassey Stone: For sure. Did you plan that out?
[00:37:59] Jacob Michna: Um, yeah. If I have to go back in my concussed head here.
[00:38:04] Yeah. I think. Yeah, no, for sure. I was actually thinking about it there. Um, I was thinking, I knew it was gonna be somewhere on that trip. Um, I just wanted a good spot. And that was like, A pretty epic lookout and I took a picture before I asked her so like pro tip You just favorite that and you never miss an anniversary because it you know puts the date stamp on there But anyways, just kidding,
[00:38:24] Cassey Stone: but yeah better than asking at five five miles to hell But no that place was so fun, too
[00:38:29] Jacob Michna: Yeah, um,
[00:38:30] Cassey Stone: there were sand washes the you know, the red rock slick rock and everything, too We're gonna go there at the end of the year with some friends and go ride that again Um, but that is just so fun because it's so You know, it's a true test to your mind and your body of how far can you go because you can't turn around now.
[00:38:48] Mark Long: Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Um, so you've, you've mentioned it a couple of times, both of you about, you know, riding with friends and having that motorcycle community. Um, what do you kind of love most about, about the off road community that you're in?
[00:39:03] Cassey Stone: What I love most is that it is that it's a community, right? Um, I think a lot of people go out through their life and they wonder, who am I?
[00:39:10] What's my purpose? What am I doing here? Who are my friends? I stand out. I'm different. Um, dirt bikes, we're all the same kind of, um, dum dums. I like to say, it's like, we're all just kind of so oddly obsessed with this sport. And that's our thing that we have in common and everything else is, you know, Well, everything else is in common too because that's the one thing we all really care about.
[00:39:34] Um, and especially here in the Treasure Valley, uh, we have a lot of women that ride. And we're all super cool. No one is stuck up. Um, you walk up to a chick and she wants to be your friend, no matter like if you totally have different interests than dirt bikes, but like that's our main one. Everyone's just so nice here.
[00:39:54] Um, you know, I've traveled to other states and raced and hung out with other people who ride too. I, I rode, um, Silverwoods in California by myself. I came back and this chick walked up to me and she's like, are you from here? We should totally ride and be friends. I'm like, no, actually I'm not. I don't even know where I'm at right now.
[00:40:11] Um, but that's the thing is no matter where you go, I think probably in the world too, it's like that. It's just, it brings people together in such a way that nothing else matters. Love it.
[00:40:22] Jacob Michna: Yeah. Um, I would have to say like in the, the old racing community that I was in, um, everyone kind of had your back.
[00:40:32] Like I've seen pros go and give another pro their own competition, like a wheel so that pro can race. Um, I've seen a lot of that happen, um, especially back in the old days. And like, I really liked the grit. Uh, that these people like off road riders and racers have to have, like, you know, you're going to be around like gritty people that can put up with quite a bit.
[00:40:52] Um, so that's probably like one of my favorite aspects of it. And like the old school, like desert racers, man, they used to like handle things out on the trail, which was pretty, like one of my favorite parts. There wasn't like a lot of drama back. At camp, I would say, just because a lot of it was handled out there, but, um, Keep your
[00:41:09] Cassey Stone: hands on the trail, not back again.
[00:41:10] Yeah, exactly. So,
[00:41:12] Jacob Michna: cause you're out in the middle of the desert, no one really can see what's going on. Um, But, uh, yeah, no, I mean, a lot, it's just such a tight community. Cause it's, it's pretty niche, I would say. And like people have each other's backs out here and we're all, you know, kind of like she said, like minded people and, um, we're all addicted to this thing called dirt bikes.
[00:41:28] And, uh, yeah, it's just a good time, um, hanging out with your buddies and stuff out in the trail. You can't really replace that. And I don't know, everyone likes good community. Everyone will help each other out.
[00:41:38] Mark Long: Um, well, last question, um, again, to both of you, if somebody wanted to get into dirt bike riding or off road riding, um, you know, whether they're young or old or have ridden in street or haven't or whatever, what would you think, uh, or what would you advise the best way to get into it would be?
[00:41:56] Cassey Stone: So to get into dirt bikes, honestly, is. Just reach out to someone in the community, um, who has a positive outlook and we have a lot of local companies that rent bikes. So like what you did, um, you know, you needed a bike, a gear, transportation to get there and someone to take you. And we offer all those things here.
[00:42:17] No matter where you live, I'm pretty sure something similar is offered in other states. around the world too. Um, and then I think the most important part is just like in life, surround yourself with people who have a positive mindset because that's going to determine the outcome and the experience you have.
[00:42:33] So just make sure you go with someone who's stoked to be there, um, and is stoked to be there and show you around, not just there for themselves too. And that's where I think a lot of our friends Um, are the same way, you know, we, we just brought beginners out at, um, Black's Creek right outside Boise and went on a, you know, a trail ride with beginners.
[00:42:51] And we do that every year, multiple times. Um, because if that's where they start, that's where I started. They start there, they have a really great experience and then they're hooked. And then we just have more people in the sports, more buddies to ride with. Um, so that's what I would recommend. Or just reach out to Helya Moto.
[00:43:08] We'll get you into a clinic, get you a bike, gear, people, um, coaches and friends, and a place to ride.
[00:43:14] Jacob Michna: Yeah, I would, I would have to say, I agree, uh, definitely your Helya Moto program is definitely, uh, super suited towards getting beginners into riding. Um, that is definitely a great way, and you know, I, I would say going past that, like, just try to let, let the fear go, and try to listen to your friends that have a lot more experience, and try to Like, be overly aggressive with their advice and, uh, you'll go far.
[00:43:39] Um, I would also say, like, a lot of people think they're, they're not good enough to race, too. And I think going out and just getting in a race or two, just to go try it low pressure. Just go out there with the aspect, like, of an off road race I'm talking about specifically. But, like, go out there with the off.
[00:43:54] Uh, like perspective of, I just need to finish
[00:43:58] Cassey Stone: and I promise
[00:43:59] Jacob Michna: you, you're going to finish a lot better off than you thought. And it's never too soon. Like I've, I've had people who hardly ever rode a dirt bike or kids on PW fifties that like, sometimes I've seen parents just throw them on there. Maybe not that.
[00:44:10] Maybe go ride a few times for you to do that, but, um, but yeah, so there's never too soon a time to go do that. But, um, yeah, you know, listen to your friends that I've wrote a long time, sign up for hell Yamamoto if you're in Idaho and, uh, yeah, that's it.
[00:44:23] Cassey Stone: I've seen, you know, it doesn't matter the age too, like I've had a lot of ladies come to me that are in their fifties and they're just picking up the sport and, um, again, there's a bike and gear and an environment for anyone, any skill level, any age.
[00:44:36] And I've ridden with like a lot of fast old dudes too, like 60s, 70s that like, really rip. Oh yeah, for sure. Um, shout out Rick at Carl's. So all those guys are so fast. It doesn't matter. Like it's, you know, I think a lot of sports, there's higher barriers to entry and with this one, it doesn't have to be, but the thing is, and what I'm trying to do and what Jake has done a lot too, is like, just educate, right?
[00:44:59] Um, if you're, you don't know where to start, well then, Here's where you start. You don't know who to talk to. Here's who you talk to. We have a lot of local, um, clubs and groups here, like TVTMA, uh, Treasure Valley Trail Machine Association that put on group rights for this reason. Um, and. Honestly, just connect with a group or someone in the community and that's all you need.
[00:45:21] Jacob Michna: I agree like you can join an off road motorcycle club too. Those are good ones to get into even if you're not ready to race yet. You can even go out and just like volunteer and like see what a race is like. That's a good way to get like hands on like see How it's going to be out there. Um, that's a great way for sure.
[00:45:38] But yeah, just kind of getting into it, you know, just make that first step and then you're going to be addicted for sure.
[00:45:43] Cassey Stone: And I'm like a map nerd. Like, so there's these maps called build art maps and they're made out of synthetic paper, but bill darts, an actual guy who has written, All of the trails around here and has marked them on his difficulty level.
[00:45:57] And, um, so if you just buy a, a bill dart map and you download, you know, there's events, uh, there's onyx, there's Calto, um, all of those. And you just start clicking around and you're like, wow, there's a trail. I'll go write it. Um, but education, right? People probably don't even know that exists. So how can we educate?
[00:46:17] People to get into the sport, um, easier. And that's what Jake and I are. I feel like doing on a, on a personal level and trying to really get out there and do it on a higher level.
[00:46:27] Mark Long: Yeah, man. Well, I, I, I think you guys are doing a hell of a job and I, if I could find two better stewards of the motorcycle industry, I'd, I don't think I could.
[00:46:36] So,
[00:46:36] Jacob Michna: um,
[00:46:38] Mark Long: yeah, well, guys for, for being on the podcast and we appreciate it. And, uh, maybe I'll give off road riding another try. I'll come, come through Idaho. Maybe I'll give it another try.
[00:46:50] Cassey Stone: We'll take you on a better trail. I promise Mark.
[00:46:57] Mark Long: And I'll, I'll bring a, uh, I'll bring an extra, uh, clutch lever and, uh, I'll get a bike with electric start and we'll call it a deal. So.
[00:47:05] Jacob Michna: There you go.
[00:47:05] Cassey Stone: Yeah, that sounds good.
[00:47:07] Mark Long: All right. Thanks guys. We'll talk soon. Okay.
[00:47:10] Cassey Stone: Thanks
[00:47:13] Mark Long: for listening to driven to ride. Interact with us and check out full unedited conversations, photos, interviews, video interviews, plus other goodies on YouTube or Instagram at driven to ride podcast, or you can check us out at driven to ride podcast.
[00:47:27] com. And make sure you leave us a rating and review from wherever you get your podcasts too. If you have an idea for an episode or a guest, or you want to invite us out on an adventure, email us. Hello at Driven to Ride podcast.com. Driven to Ride is wholly owned by Flint Rock, LLC, made possible with help from Matthew Miles and written, hosted, and produced by me.
[00:47:47] Mark. Long we'll see out there.